Ep 9: Exploring the Bodies Knowledge in Dance with Billy Hawkains III

In this episode of Dance Unscripted, host Amy Elizabeth engages with Billy Hawkins III, a pioneering figure in dance education, discussing the transformative power of dance as a means of building resilience and knowledge. They explore the concept of the body as a vessel of experience, the innovative Safety Release technique, and the importance of curiosity and somatic awareness in dance training. Hawkins emphasizes the need to embrace mistakes and the ongoing journey of growth in dance, challenging traditional hierarchies and promoting agency among students. The conversation highlights the vital role of resilience in navigating the challenges of a dance career and the importance of fostering a supportive and curious learning environment.

Season One of Dance Unscripted is brought to you by a grant from the Lamar University Center for Resiliency. 

Billy's Links:

Social Media-

@iambillyjhawkains

@the.iii.collective

Transcript

Amy Elizabeth 

Welcome to Dance Unscripted. I am your host, Amy Elizabeth. We are joined today by Billy Hawkins III. Billy is a dynamic performer, choreographer, and educator who made history as the first full-time Black professor in the Department of Dance at Kennesaw State University. Billy holds an MFA in dance choreography from the University of North Carolina at Greensboro and a BFA in dance performance from the University of North Carolina School of the Arts. He is one of the only

three certified master teachers of safety release, which I am dying to know more about. And he also serves as the artistic advisor for Dance Canvas and on the Community Advisory Board for the Black Artists Dance Collective. I am so glad that you have joined us today for this unique conversation with Billy. Billy brings with him a belief that how we move and how we learn to move.

shapes not only our technical development, but our capacity to navigate challenges and change both in and beyond the studio. Well, Billy, you have my attention. So welcome to the show and thank you for being with us for this vital conversation.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Thank you and thank you for having me. This is so amazing. I'm so excited to have this conversation. Thank you.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes, I am as well. So let's get straight into it. You state your investment lies and practices that center the body as a site of knowledge, transformation and resilience. Can we take a moment to explain what that looks like? What does it mean for the body to be a site of knowledge?

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, you know, our bodies hold so much knowledge, right? We're literally vessels, right? So we can be poured into and we can pour out. And the things that are being poured into us, that's our experiences. That's the things that we hold, right? If you have a very good experience, your body is going to hold that information. If you have a not so good experience, likewise, your body is going to remember that.

And not only is it going to remember those experiences, those happenings, it's going to store a particular physical response. That's why, for instance, when if someone comes across a familiar situation or something that reminds them of an event that happened to them, sometimes the body might tighten up or it might release, it might soften. Whenever I see my mother, because my body has stored

the knowledge of her love and her care, when I see her, my body softens. I can be going through a bad day and I see my mother, I see my father, I see my loved ones. My body has knowledge of who they are, what they've been to me, and it reacts physically. The same thing happens when we go through maybe not so good things. On Christmas Eve some years ago, I got into a terrible accident.

I'm still here, thankfully. But, you know, whenever I'm on the road now, I can be just driving in my car. And when I start to feel like a car driving too close to me in the back, my body tightens up because it remembers that moment. So our bodies are very intelligent. They hold not only then what we go through, but the impact. That's the knowledge, the impact that it had on us.

Amy Elizabeth 

yes, thank you.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

I had a graduate professor once say to me, it was a research class and she says, we have enough history. We, our bodies have more than enough history. Now, of course we have to do all the important things, know, citing our sources, looking up those things and all of that, but we can't escape or at least we shouldn't escape what we already know because we live, we go through things, we experience things and that is the knowledge in which

um that we hold and then your second question um or i don't know if you uh because i don't know if you asked this already but um it's it's that working right all of that working and and all of that coming together that actually then helps us or determines how we then exist or as i often say and i tell my students how we be in the world because we are aware that

Billy J Hawkains III 

We're also not just going through things for nothing. It's giving us a way in which to live and to exist and to have a particular perception and perspective on the world.

Amy Elizabeth 

Absolutely. We've been talking on this podcast a lot about the whole body experience, the whole person, the whole person paradigm coming into each situation that we engage with and understanding that our physical being is a part of that whole person. The body is included in that person and the body has that information. And whether we're conscious of it or not, we are bringing that energy, that movement, the memory.

into each and every situation with us. It's just fascinating to hear it spoken in that way. So as the intro stated, you are one of only three people who are certified in safety release. And I'm going to admit my ignorance. I've never heard of this technique before. I am intrigued. So please tell me what is safety release?

Billy J Hawkains III 

You are definitely not alone. Definitely not not alone. A lot of people when they hear safety release like what is that? What's what what's like? my god. I need to know I absolutely love safety release. So safety release is a dance technique, of course, but dance technique and a movement modality is which is that's what we really call it That was created by my mentor BJ Sullivan her she goes by BJ, but her name is Elizabeth Sullivan

Billy J Hawkains III 

and she is a professor at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. That's where I got my MFA, and that's where I started to study this wonderful technique called safety release. And she started to generate this technique when she was choreographing in New York and all over the world. And she started to notice that dancers were having a challenge around learning her choreography. So she goes, okay, what can we do

to have the dancers tap into this kind of moving and this kind of expression. And, you know, of course you can think, well, let's just repeat, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. But she thought there has to be maybe another way to get the dancers to connect on a deeper level to what they are physically doing. So that was really the genesis of safety release. The name didn't come.

Until she was asked to actually teach a class in New York and she didn't have a name and she said well Okay, well, it's kind of base is really based in release techniques contemporary release technique. She studied Alexander technique these kind of somatic techniques she studied Feldenkrais skin a release technique climb technique So it was a lot of release. That's her research a lot of release and then the safety part comes from

an actual principle within the technique called the safety foot. some may, they may not know that name, recognize that name, but if you ever see videos where dancers, they might jump into the air and they don't land on the flatness of their foot, but they land maybe on the top part, that is what we call safety foot. And the premise and point of this movement modality is all about efficiency.

It's about how can you move in the way that you move efficiently? And so we think about where movement actually happens. So going back to, you know, her choreographing and trying to get the dancers to, you know, grow in their ability to do this. Well, let's think about how you're actually doing the movement. What's what's necessary, what's being used. So the work.

Billy J Hawkains III 

as much release work does, it focuses on the bones, the joints, the skeletal system. And it's how do you access efficiency through knowledge of your body, the joints, where movement happens. And then as the work developed, it started to include a lot of work along the floor.

And so it then began to develop into using your body in an efficient way to get in and out of the floor and move through space. And one of the unique things about this technique is that it continues to evolve. So as BJ often says, this safety release is whatever those who teach it develop it to be.

So, you you mentioned that there are only three master teachers. And so me being a master teacher, I, we all know the foundation, right? We all know the foundation of the word, but I have my approach that may differ from, Katie, another, safety release master teacher or Caitlin Strader, right? we all know the foundational principles of this technique, but we teach it, in different ways. But the main point is efficiency.

and how do you exist in your body and not some ideal.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We see this a lot more in our contemporary work. Yes, for those of us who are, for lack of better terms, classically trained in more of the concert art, being ballet, modern, et cetera, we see this a lot more in the contemporary approaches to these art forms coming from an expressive side, again, bringing that whole person and whole body trying to be yourself in this.

actualization of the movement versus trying to be something else, something outside of yourself. And you mentioned that the one thing that all of you have is the foundation of the principles of this technique. Are they codified like a one, two, three, four? These are our base principles. And if so, could you tell us a little bit more about what those principles are specific to safety release?

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, so they continue to grow. What I love about this work is we continue to find out what these principles are as we each go out and we teach, know, I'm based in Georgia, the others in North Carolina and Chicago, and they continue to evolve. But there are these kind of guiding principles that we, it's kind of like our non-negotiables, if you will, like the things that we hold core.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

And one being what I had just mentioned about existing within your body, right? Showing up as you. That if you want to see any kind of development, any type of growth, well, you are in the body that wants to grow. So you have to then go deep inside yourself and think about where am I?

How am I? That's very important. How am I? And growing in a deeper sense of connection to who you are and where you want to go, but starting at the basis of you. Another principle that we live by is we kind of put it under the umbrella, articulation and whatever that may be. So on a physical...

side, right? It is the articulation of the body of the body. So really knowing what is happening when whenever movement is going on, right? And this is why the somatic part is so important and that we actually spend the first 30 minutes of every class going through a somatic practice because we don't want to rush the process of getting to whatever we think a technique class needs to get to.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

It's very important that we're able to articulate how our body, how my body, Billy's body is moving, how the person next to me, how their body's moving. And so we really take our time to think through the physicality of the body. And there's a whole set of exercises that kind of aid and support that. and that's what I really love about the technique is that it's there's no rush to it.

there's no kind of, have to get to this. It's just about sensing, sensing. And so that brings me to the last one is awareness. It's always about being aware at every given moment. Can you be aware of what you are doing, how you're doing it and why you are doing it, which spills into so much, it spills into so much beyond just the physical.

Amy Elizabeth

Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yeah, absolutely. So I swing back around to this word somatic. And you mentioned this idea of somatics and somatic awareness. what does it mean? Well, first of all, can you define somatics for our audience? And then what it means to be a somatically aware person, dancer, artist?

Billy J Hawkains III

Yeah, so somatics in a nutshell is going from the inside out or working from the inside out. So it is not about appearances as much as it is about sensation, right? What are you feeling and where is that coming from? Right? So that's also why somatics is not just about it doesn't put

dominant on the the physicality of it all like how something actually looks but it is about Where what is happening on the inside on a deeper level and what are you feeling? And so a somatic somatic also got a somatic dancer, right? Because we're talking about Dancer will be left a somatic dancer Someone who is a mad and you know BJ will always say this she's like, you you do legs wings I think I could do a leg swing combination which is

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

I'm very present in Techniques or dance classes that have a presence of somatics we can do leg swings But you can just swing your leg to one side to the other but a dancer who is being somatic working from the inside out is being curious about the mechanics and how this thing is actually playing out that they are sensing

where the modality, where the movement is coming from and all of the things that's surrounding that one moment of just doing a leg swing. Someone who, a somatic dancer, they're not worried about perfectionism. They know that the process is more important than the product and that the product can always change, the product being a goal, right? That it can shift from class to class

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III

from you know month to month whatever that they are more excited if you were more excited about the process than they are about the product and in general a somatic person i was actually thinking about this before this podcast is someone who is always just curious they're just curious like

I was actually cleaning up my apartment before this and kind of moving some things around. And I started to realize that, I typically always use my dominant hand to do X, Y, and Z, right? I do this a lot also when I'm driving. I'm like, I'm left-handed. I always use my left hand. And now that right there is semantics.

That is because I'm not just drawing, but I'm noticing what I'm actually doing. And the important part, and I guess this could be the last thing I mentioned, is that it's not coupled with any kind of judgment. So I notice that I use my left hand a lot, and I go, OK, I use my left hand a lot. Now, I could make a decision to use my right hand, or I can just notice.

that my left hand is always reaching for that book or moving, you know, the first hand to touch the couch to move it. I can just notice it. So, you know, all in all, a somatic dancer or a somatic person is someone who is just constantly in a state of curiosity, constantly in a state of just being aware, not necessarily trying to judge anything, fix anything really.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

and someone who is just along for the journey, the process of learning or whatever it is that they may be in.

Amy Elizabeth 

So then my next question to that would be, how does this approach this curiosity or not worried about the product, but the process of the how? How does this inform, for lack of better words, the technical rigor of dance training? Like, how does this shift the student in the room itself? Because we're asking the student to approach their education

through a different lens. I mean, you're still doing the leg swings, right? We're all in the same room. We're all doing the same leg swings, but we're asking them to approach it differently. So how does this inform them and their experience?

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, one way is that they start to their perspective around what training is begins to shift because a lot of times dancers, at least dancers, especially young dancers that I've worked with, they have this mindset that a technique class has to have these components that we have to get to. We got to have a warm up, have whatever exercises, and then we got to get to jumps and all of that.

But this kind of approach to technique actually helps them slow down and actually think differently about how they are learning. And then it actually connects them on a deeper level with, again, their bodies and their training. So, you know, sure, I could just say, let's go five, six, seven, eight leg swings and that's it.

But if we're actually taking our time to break things down, if we're taking our time to really sense things, you're actually, you're actually, that to me, that's a better route of growing any kind of rigor, right? I often say this, like, in choreography. If I were to do something very fast, if the choreography is very fast, it's not really just about, let's move very fast, as much as it's about knowing how to access just

even a little bit quicker, whatever movement, whatever gesture, whatever it is, is just how do you use the basis of whatever the choreography is, know, the whatever the smallest version of it, how do you use that? Why you may, you know, be moving, have to move a bit quicker, but it's how do you actually exist along your own journey of learning?

And that takes patience and it takes a different mindset. You have to go, okay, there actually is no clock. I don't actually have to be somewhere at a particular time. And if I actually want to develop and express a certain level of rigor, it's actually better to know what's all working in order to produce whatever kind of level of rigor I want.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yeah, so you also mentioned that safety release disrupts traditional hierarchies in dance training. So you've experienced these traditional hierarchies. You've danced many of our postmodern pioneers work such as Merce Cunningham, Paul Taylor. went through a traditional, I'm assuming a traditional BFA program before you found BJ in this MFA practice. And so how does safety release differ from these practices?

and kind of what are, go ahead, yeah.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, that's a-

I'm gonna ask a wonderful question. The first thing I would say is autonomy. That we stress agency over thyself a lot in these classes. That actually you, the student, you have more of a nation than anyone else in the room would have. And that we actually, as the instructor, we don't position ourselves

as the one that has all the answers. And we actually make that quite clear. And you might say, well, you know, there are educators and other styles that, you know, they, of course, they don't know everything. But we actually say it, we make it clear, we break down all of those walls and we go, we don't have all of the answers. Actually, we're giving you offerings, right? We're giving you offerings, we're offering you suggestions.

We're offering you a perspective and you have agency over how that plays out. And so there's already now this sense of I can be how I am in this space in a very free way, but it also encourages them to take their learning, take control of their learning process. Right? So that's one way. Another way is that

Safe Dress is very different and definitely in terms of its pedagogy and also how we as educators situate ourselves in the classroom. So we are not just in the front, right? So I remember taking my Cunningham classes and my Graham classes and I absolutely love those techniques. Well, Graham hurts my body because I don't have that much flexibility, but I respect it. And

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

Well.

Billy J Hawkains III 

The atmosphere of the class is very clear instructor and the front dancers are within the studio We actually had safe to release teachers. We take every class that we teach We literally take every class that we teach and we don't situate ourselves in the front But more so in the middle on the side even in the back of the room because what we want to Get across is that we're actually all in this together

that just because I'm here giving the class doesn't mean that I'm also not a student. Which leads me to the next point is that as the instructor, we often take the mindset of a student and we encourage the students to take the mindset of the teacher. So we want to learn, we're learning as the instructors and we want to know how are you actually structuring and molding and shaping this information that it's given.

Amy Elizabeth 

That's nice.

Billy J Hawkains III 

And we often, we often ask safety release teachers, we often answer questions with more questions. Sometimes because we really don't know, we're like, hey, I don't know. But we're not afraid to say, you know what, I'm not sure, I'm feeling this when I do the safety role, which is a movement in the technique. Sometimes we may have an answer, sometimes we may not have an answer. And we're very clear about that. But we go, maybe let's pose a question that would get both of us

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

thinking. And we also allow, we often also shift, we use the 360 kind of dimension of the room. So not everything faces the mirror, right? Not everything is, there's no clear front. We're moving even within the combinations. We are actually using the body as a map more so than we are the room. And so it also then just transforms

the actual dancer because now they are encouraged. Unlike some modern dance techniques that I've studied and I'm pretty sure a lot of people can relate to that, we're now encouraged to think about our body as 3D and not 2D because we're not setting up this class as only facing the mirror. I often tell students the mirror is a lie.

It is a lie. It's telling you that your front body is all that you have. And no, you have your back body. You have the right side, the left side, and all the circles and all the spirals in between. yeah, know, taking a safety release class really shifts and has shifted a lot of minds around how to be in class, how to take class, what a technique class actually is. And I love seeing dancers all the time transformed.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yeah, that's what I was about to say. There's, mean, just listening to it, I'm thinking, no, I want to be in that embodied experience. It sounds like an embodied experience versus this is our goal and this is what we have to reach and that there is a right or wrong. you know, mentioning the idea of the mirror, my students get very frustrated with me when I pull the curtains over the mirror and they're, what are you, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I was like, you're not here in this moment right now. Yes, I am. standing right here.

No, you're looking in that mirror and you are having an external perspective of yourself in this moment, which prevents you from going internally and understanding. You're looking at it and you're saying my arm's not in the right place versus feeling, I'm not fully extending through my arms. They are dropping and a little slacking as...

for a lack of better examples right here in this moment. But it does, I think the barrier, the mirror can oftentimes be a barrier for the students in what we call the embodied practice of being fully present in your person and being able to feel what's happening versus being able to see what's happening. And I don't know, I'm really interested to talk to some of these students and just how does that, how that environment shifts the way that they see themselves.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, yeah.

Amy Elizabeth 

how it shifts the way they see their instructor, because some of the things you're saying are resonate with. I resonate with the mirror. I resonate with there is no front. We talk about that in my class all the time. There is no front. And so I'll start class on a different thing or we'll create combinations that actively shift through the whole thing so that you're never stationary in one place for too long. But I found it really interesting, this idea of taking class as an instructor.

instructor and how the student responds to that. I mean, even I am constantly asking my students or telling my students, you have to meet me halfway. This isn't about me coming in here and instructing you. What are you bringing in? How are you showing up? I can't do it for you, know, these sorts of things. And I feel like from what it sounds, the safety releases is not only just saying these things.

Billy J Hawkains III

Yeah.

Amy Elizabeth 

but embodying them and not giving the student an option and not giving the instructor an option. I think I gave back on, you know, I've been teaching various levels, various techniques for 20 years now and in higher education for about 14. And kind of what that feels like coming in and this idea of having to run the room.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Right, right.

Amy Elizabeth 

And it doesn't, mean, listening to you talk about safety release, it's not about running the room and it's not about necessarily what you are bringing in. You are bringing in yourself, which is this body of knowledge, body of information. And so I'm just really curious as to what that would feel like, not only as a student, but as an instructor to not just, I feel surface level at this point. I feel that the idea

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Elizabeth 

the ideologies that you are speaking that I am nodding my head rigorously for those of us who are listening and not seeing. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, I believe all of this. I'm empowered by all of this. wait, on a surface level, I'm not really sure that I've been able to step into a room and the students experience that environment with me.

Billy J Hawkains III

Yeah, yeah, it definitely, it has been very transformative, for definitely for me and, and, and for sure, for the other, the other safety release teachers, it keeps us in a position of investigation and exploration. And, and again, going back to that word curiosity, like if you, if you ever.

it take a safety release class, we're going to say the word curiosity or curious a million times over, because that's what it really is about. And I'll say at first, it was uncomfortable to be in it, teaching a class,

You know, being that I'm teaching, you know, my young ones, I call them my lovely ladies, they're seven, eight years old, call them my lovely ladies, in a local setting, or if I'm teaching at university or somewhere in between. first, years ago, it was interesting to kind of position myself in that kind of non-dominant, you know, kind of, I'm in the front kind of field, because I was like, are they going to really trust me to lead them?

Amy Elizabeth 

Aww.

Amy Elizabeth

That's it.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Is that going to kind of get in the way of them, you know, seeing me as, you know, the person who is the instructor? But then I had to go back because all of that starts, because again, being somatic, okay, why am I thinking like that?

Why am I already thinking, you know, about the assumptions of people? I don't know. I don't know what they're thinking, but why? And one of the things that I've realized is because I was so used to things being done a certain way that I just accepted them as the end-all be-all. And then also,

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Then also, you know, along with that kind of accepting this, is how technique class goes and this is how teacher, you know, how teachers teach, you know, on top of that, it's like, no, it's actually okay to still be learning too. Because while we are here, no one has made it. I don't care if you have a PhD and I'm not disrespecting, you know, those who have gone on and pursued that way. That is amazing. I even have aspirations to do that for sure.

But even when we have achieved all of these titles, we're still learning. We're still in our process. So then I go, well, this way of positioning myself actually helps me be authentic to where I am in the process. And what I've learned, the impact that it has had on students, is that it actually encourages them around their learning too. Because now they feel safe.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Because you've got to also think, what are we doing as instructors by putting, by dancing and putting ourselves in this particular place? We're putting our quote unquote flaws and our mistakes. I don't ever, when I go across the floor, with them, the combination that I created, I mess up. I don't always get it right. And I laugh about it. I go, oh, that's great. Oh, that's what we're doing today. Love it. And so the students, because I'm taking class, and I'm not just saying,

Billy J Hawkains III 

Don't worry about the mistakes, but I am embodying that. They go, I can do that too. And I also seen him after he has quote unquote messed up, carry on. so it's not so bad to make a mistake. So embodying that in real time is, yes, it's for the teacher. You're getting a lot out of it, but it's also spilling over to the students in the room in which we do all of this for.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yeah, and it seems like the word that comes to mind is allowance or really permission. Like I'm not just saying that you can make a mistake, I'm giving you permission to make a mistake and that there will be no judgment and that there will be no repercussions and those sorts of things, which is not always true.

Billy J Hawkains III

That's it.

Billy J Hawkains III

That's it.

Amy Elizabeth 

in all environments, especially when we have a set goal to grow, achieve, and that growth and achievement is then marked by, you know, juries, if you're in that type of situation, or casting, or being moved to the next level. And so we're always reaching for that something. The next best thing. Yes, it just, yeah, I'm just gonna sit here and nod my head like a little bobblehead.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Correct.

Billy J Hawkains III

That's it.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, and there's not, yeah, we're nodding for those who are listening to this. Yes, yes.

Amy Elizabeth

Yes, yes, we are all not alone together. So on this season of Dance Unscripted, we are focused on dance's role in developing and empowering resilience in our community. So you state the safety release serves as a central framework for examining the result. For examining the role of resilience in contemporary dance education, supporting dancers in responding to challenges with agency awareness and sustainable.

engagement.

How, for lack of better words, how does this happen? what? Yeah, I'm just gonna say that. How does this happen?

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, yeah.

Billy J Hawkains III

Yeah, I mean in so many ways, but I'll go back to what we were just kind of talking about around these ideas of mistakes. know, resilience is so important, first of all, as a person and especially as a dancer, because this, as you and I know, and those who may be listening to this right now, the career, the pathway of a dance artist is just,

Amy Elizabeth

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

comes with its challenges. does. It comes with its joys and all of that, but it is not without those moments of downs and doubting yourself and questioning, I good enough? Did I make the right decision? And maybe, I don't know, not pursuing ballet, not pursuing contemporary dance, all the things. It comes with so many challenges and resilience is the special ingredient to the recipe and the recipe being

Wherever you want to go, whatever you want to do resilience is that important ingredient and one of the ways in which again through the I'll touch on the Pedagogical approach and then kind of like the physical one physical example. I'm spedagogy pedagogy speaking from a pedagogy pedagogically

wins, that word is so difficult. Don't edit that out because I'm not ashamed to say that I can't say that word. from that perspective, from that perspective, going back to this idea of mistakes. So I always say, like Beyonce said, find your way back. know, her son, find your way back. Big, world, find your way back. And this is what I mean by that. So when we're going across the floor or we're doing some kind of

Billy J Hawkains III 

phrase it could be something that crosses you know goes across the floor something in center um what tends to happen happen when dancers forget they stop they just stop they go they've been met with a challenge and the challenge is remembering the combination and so they just go oh they freeze up right when the body holds what knowledge and so now all of a sudden they're tensing up because they know maybe they have a memory of um you know getting reprimanded because they stopped or they got it wrong

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

And what we say in Safety Release is that actually when that happens, again, tap into that agency, tap into the knowledge that's in your body and find your way back. And we do that through improvisation. So they can be doing whatever kind of, you know, phrase work and the moment that they kind of go, I don't know what's going on, we say just keep moving.

Because at some point, you're going to land. And in fact, every move you make from the moment that you forgot is, in and of itself, a kind of landing. And it's not about getting, like, doing the combination. We often say, and people, they go, wait, are you serious? Like, you just told me it's OK if I don't do it the exact way that you taught it. Yes. Yes, that is so true.

you don't, the goal is not to go across the floor and like ace the whole combination. That's great too. But it's more so about experiencing. Okay, so how is that connected to resilience? Because resilient people understand that they're going to be roadblocks, they're going to be challenges, they're going to be all kinds of things that kind of get in the way of us

getting to whatever next level of a goal and the importance is to keep moving forward. It is to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

is to keep moving on and in spite of what may be all around and what you may be facing is that as long as you know that you want to get there in a dance class, you want to get across the floor. Well, you had in your mind one way in which you want to get there, which was by doing the combination the way it was taught. But, uh-oh, you're in the middle of a combination and that plan has gone out the window. So what now?

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Right, what do you do now? And a person that is embodying this idea of resilience, they always have some kind of plan, some kind of plan. It have to be the perfect plan because what is the perfect plan? But it's, okay, I see this in front of me, I see this challenge, what can I do about it? Let me focus on what I can do about it and the rest, they're gonna exit stage left.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

And so we and so through that, through that and we really try to drive that point home because we're hoping that it does spill into their lives outside of the studio. Can you bring in a vulnerable space in class? Not knowing, right, the ins and outs of a particular movement phrase or whatever. Can you trust what you have, what you know?

you what you've learned to the capacity that you have learned it and let you have it and your understanding at the moment. Can you trust that enough to get you to wherever you're trying to go? Right. and then physically, there, there is an exercise. And so, so there's a lot of connection between safety release and Bartini or fundamentals.

Amy Elizabeth 

Hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

and, and a lot of people, they, they kind of say, well, this is just that played out, but we take it a step forward. And we're really thinking about the cyclical spiral nature of these motions that more or less sometimes happens kind of in place. and we built, we built upon that.

But there's an exercise that we do on the floor and it's called femur rolls or femur fall. And for those who are listening, you don't know what I just said, I just named the thigh bone, the thigh bone femur. And it's an exercise that it helps you to, it's basically focusing on the range in your lower body by thinking about the femur, right, releasing to the ground.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

What we say is that it's not about your femur touching the ground as much as it is about just noticing the journey along the way and Realizing, you know, okay, this is the amount of range. I have my hips or whatever on this particular day This is the range I'm working with That's very important because what we're doing is we're asking them not to chase an idea but to deal with reality and That's really hard

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

for a lot of dancers. Because again, we want to, we want to, at the top of class for some reason, again, especially my young dancers, they want to have it all. They're for jumps as as they walk into the room. It's like, no, wait, wait, slow down. That, that dealing with where you actually are and starting with that, right? How does this connect to resilience? Resilience is all about understanding reality and accepting.

what is happening in the real time. Like this is what I'm up against or this is what I'm going through. Like not ignoring that, but really accepting that. so through accepting where your physical body is through these exercises that encourage you not to go beyond your flexibility, not to go beyond

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

how much you can move or how fast you can move or not go beyond any of that but sit and rest and where you are right now. What we hope is that that again spills over into their lives outside of the studio that they're able to just accept the reality of whatever their circumstance may be. Whatever they may be. To accept it, it's okay that it might not be what you want it to be. Sure, but again,

As long as you are rare, there's something that can be done. There's always something to be done.

Amy Elizabeth

There's always something to be done. Absolutely. Always. There's always room. There's always room for. It's always room for possibilities and having having the the wherewithal or having the the practice of being able to say, are my options?

Billy J Hawkains III

Always.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yes!

Billy J Hawkains III 

That's it.

Amy Elizabeth 

And so I think for me, that's kind of where I try to live. say the artist's life is a curious life. And we've used that word curiosity a lot in that, the point is for it to not be just one way. And the lifelong learner mindset that you were talking about earlier of instructors continuing to learn. And I think the way that we continue to do that is by holding onto that curiosity and.

Billy J Hawkains III 

That's it.

Amy Elizabeth 

is something being an administrative role most recently, people ask for things. They ask, how's it going? Or it's you representing the whole asking for something on behalf of the group. And so there is this asking that is happening. And we have a saying in my, we'll call it a cohort, department, whatever, whichever word you want to use, is it's not no.

Billy J Hawkains III 

All the time all the time

Billy J Hawkains III 

Alright.

Amy Elizabeth 

It's what are my options? And so trying to approach not only, I mean, from a micro level, I'm going across the floor doing this dance combination and the answer is never no, which would translate to stop. The answer is not stop. The answer is what are my options? And then translating that into more of a macro level where it's this department,

Billy J Hawkains III 

That's it.

Amy Elizabeth 

has come up upon this challenge or this need or this desire and we might be met with some resistance, but the answer is not no. The answer is what are my options? What are my choices? And having a collective mind that is grounded in that sense of curiosity, I think is what really propels any idea group

organization institution forward. And it's that idea of forward forward motion, if you will. And I think that resilience is the idea of forward motion and not necessarily knowing how. But what are the options? I mean, this is just

Billy J Hawkains III 

Agreed.

Billy J Hawkains III

Absolutely

Amy Elizabeth

Mind blown, I'm fascinated. I want in, sign me up.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, yeah. like I listen, listen, no, it's so it's so great. And, know, going back to a wonderful point that you made about, you know, it's not know that what are my options, I often say, you know, in

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

It doesn't matter what kind of room I'm in it could be I'm teaching a class or this is a conference or this committee meeting or whatever and you know, it's so easy like you said it's so easy for us to go Oh, no, this can't be done because X Y & Z is and it's like wait, you know slow down What about if we piece this apart? We might find a possibility there

Amy Elizabeth 

Uh-huh.

Billy J Hawkains III

Why, what if we actually go maybe not it as a whole, but there are certain aspects to it that we can pursue? And what that does is, especially in a technique class, kind of inspires creativity.

And you know, and we like to say this where I'm going to say, innovation. Like, you know, like what is innovation, right? But it inspires that and it really compels then the dancer in real time to think creatively, because now your perspective around, like you say, like how this is going to happen is going to shift.

and you may not know the ins and outs of that, because you are curious enough, I told you we say this word a lot, because you are curious enough, right, to the journey, you can then see, well, maybe not that way, but I could do it this way. Maybe I can move this way. That wasn't really how it was shown or demonstrated, but this is where I'm at.

possibility and it does it keeps you moving forward because at the end of the day that's what it's about moving forward seeing that kind of growth and and one thing I'll say to those that it didn't change is what we think what we think that forward motion should look like and the rate at which it should take I will say there are no there are no deadlines to growth

Amy Elizabeth

Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

I always say we actually get the blessing of having our entire lives to grow. There isn't a deadline. Even by the end of the semester, and I'm probably going on a tangent here, but even an assessment from a safety release perspective is kind of challenging because a student can get to the end of the semester

And they go, my gosh, I never did the combination the way you taught across the floor throughout the entire 16 weeks. And I go, and you still passed. Congratulations. Why? Because really and truly I can piece it all apart, but you got to the end. You arrived, you got here, which means now because

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amy Elizabeth 

You did?

Billy J Hawkains III 

I'm not going be the only person that ever teaches you. I'm just someone along your journey. I've planted seed. I've planted a seed within you that I hope will grow. And that seed has enabled you to get to this far. So now you have things within inside of you because again, your body is a vessel. You cannot now walk away from what you just experienced. And what you experienced was perseverance. What you experienced was endurance.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

and resilience and now you can use that as the starting point for wherever you go next. So just be open to how it all plays out.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Amy Elizabeth 

This is sorry. I just got big smiles and nodding heads and a loss of words, which is ironic for me. For the people who are listening who know me in real life, it is very rare that you can snap words out of my mouth. I just, it is inspiring. It is inspiring to hear and to see that there is a platform to really see the dancers as humans, to see them

Billy J Hawkains III 

No.

Billy J Hawkains III 

wow.

Amy Elizabeth 

accept them for where they are and for encouraging them on a journey. And that idea, you know, I often say I'm a deadline girl, give me a deadline and I will have it produced. But between the day you gave that deadline and the deadline, I make no promises. And so with this idea of there is no deadline on our progress, that's something completely different. That's something completely different.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

No promises. No promises.

Billy J Hawkains III

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Elizabeth 

something that I'm absolutely gonna take with me moving forward. Thank you for that. Billy, thank you so much for bringing this methodology and practice to our audience. It has been a true pleasure getting to know you and how dance can shift a person through this practice. I mean, like I hope that the people who are listening are as inspired as I am because I'm beaming, but we have...

Amy Elizabeth 

One more task with our time together and that is our rapid round. So if you could please for me finish these two sentences as quickly as you can. So are you ready?

Billy J Hawkains III 

Okay, I'm gonna do my best, here we go.

Amy Elizabeth 

Sentence number one, resilience is.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Resilience is the process by which we become a better us.

Amy Elizabeth 

That's beautiful. Yeah. And the second sentence is, dance has taught me.

Billy J Hawkains III 

I'll just, yeah. Yeah.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Mm-hmm.

Billy J Hawkains III 

let's see here. God's gosh dancing. It's not me so much dance has taught me That it is actually okay to show up as you

It's actually okay to show up as who you really are.

Amy Elizabeth 

Mm, I love that.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Yeah, I'm thankful for that, yeah.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes, and I am thankful for you again, Billy. Thank you so much for giving us your time. And I hope that everyone who is listening latches on to safety release and we could start seeing more of this in our studios and in our departments. Thank you so much.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Absolutely and again thank you for having me. This was just so incredible and I do I too do hope that those who are listening to this you know walk away empowered and if those your listeners who you might want to you know get in touch with safety release you can follow us if I may you can follow safety release on instagram at Sullivan safety release. Sullivan the last name of the founder safety release and

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes.

Billy J Hawkains III 

I'm in charge of all the social media, so you'll be kind of connected with me. we post regularly on there. We just wrapped up our summer intensive that happened at UNC Queensborough in North Carolina. And then we're getting ready for our winter intensive that happens in December. So if you would like to...

Come on out and experience all of this in person. Go ahead and just follow us on social media and then you'll see all that information posted when it's ready.

Amy Elizabeth 

Yes, perfect. Thank you so much. And I do hope that everyone does click and follow.

Billy J Hawkains III 

Thank you.

Yes, yes.

Amy Elizabeth

Thank you for joining Billy and me for this episode of Dance Unscripted, presented by Aimed Dance. I am truly blown away by Billy’s energy and inspiring approach to dance pedagogy and how it enhances curiosity, expectations, and perseverance. We all have a need for resilience in our lives to face the expected and unexpected. We here at Aimed Dance believe dance has the ability to build this attribute into our lives. You can find links to Billy Hawkains III and safety release in our show notes. Be sure to click the subscribe button and share with a friend or colleague. Leave us a review on Spotify and your name will be entered into a drawing for Dance Unscripted merch. We know you could’ve chosen any platform, but you chose us and you chose dance, and for that we are incredibly grateful. Season One of Dance Unscripted is brought to you by a grant from the Lamar University Center for Resiliency.