Dance Unscripted
Dance Unscripted brings together working artists, makers, and educators to explore creative research, pedagogical practices, dance-making, and more. It aims to break down barriers between audience and artist, educator and student, and professional and novice, creating a space for conversations that foster engagement, collaboration, and connection across diverse participants and fields.
This project is funded through a grant from the Lamar University Center for Resiliency.
Dance Unscripted
Ep 2: Dance of Resilience with Kesha McKey
In this episode of Dance Unscripted, host Amy Elizabeth speaks with Kesha McKey, a seasoned dance educator and choreographer from New Orleans. They explore Kesha's journey from a pre-med background to a fulfilling career in dance, the impact of Hurricane Katrina on the arts community, and the challenges posed by hurricane seasons on education. Kesha shares her insights on creating safe spaces for students and artists, the importance of mission-driven work in her dance company, KM Dance Project, and the evolving nature of her work, particularly the piece 'Raw Fruit.' The conversation highlights the power of dance as a medium for storytelling, resilience, and community connection, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability and empathy in both art and education.
Season One of Dance Unscripted is funded by a grant through the Lamar University Center for Resiliency.
Links for Kesha:
Social Media: @kmdanceproject on both Instagram and Facebook
Website: www.Kmdanceproject.org
Amy Elizabeth
Welcome to Dance Unscripted. I am your host, Amy Elizabeth, and on this episode, we are joined by Kesha McKey. Kesha is a dance educator, choreographer, and administrator based in New Orleans, Louisiana. We dive into her journey from a pre-med undergraduate degree to a career in dance that spans over 25 years. The effects of tropical storms and hurricanes on the learning and creative processes
as well as the creative process defining creative research, resilience, and so much more. This inspiring conversation illustrates the impact dance has on students, dancers, and audiences alike. I do hope it speaks to you as it did to me.
Amy Elizabeth
Welcome to Dance Unscripted. I am your host, Amy Elizabeth, and I am honored to have with us on this episode, Kesha McKey. Kesha was born and raised in New Orleans, has a bachelor's of science in pre-med and a master's of fine arts in dance performance from the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. She's been a dance educator in the New Orleans area for over 25 years. The founder and artistic director of KM Dance Project, and currently serves as the Director of Arts at the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts and Dancing Grounds Teaching Artist and Dance for Social Change choreographer. Kesha, thank you so much for joining us today.
Kesha McKey
Thank you for having me.
Amy Elizabeth
Okay, so I've got to ask, you are a well-established choreographer, performer, educator, and administrator. So how does one jump from pre-med to a lifetime career of dance?
Kesha McKey
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
Right. Guilty as charged. Okay, so, you know, I've been dancing since I was four years old. Dance has always been a part of my life. It was my first choice as far as a career is concerned. Getting a pre-med degree was more of my parents saying...
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
You want a degree in what? In dance, okay. And let's think about something that's gonna be a little bit more practical and a fallback plan. So that was me appeasing, you know, my parents to getting, of course, I mean, I had some interest in some dentistry. I had a little bit of interest there, but yeah, it was mainly the push from parents and family.
Amy Elizabeth
Mmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah?
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
to go in that direction for something that was a little bit more secure, especially during that time because, you know, when I was going to college, having a degree or getting a degree in dance was not very popular. So it was definitely something that my parents wanted to ensure that I was, you know, setting myself up for success.
Amy Elizabeth
It is quite common, actually. are most dancers or even artists. I too, when I started my undergraduate career, I was double majoring because of my parents' concerns for my security moving into adulthood. And they're not wrong. They're really not. It's coming from a place of love. We know that it is. But yeah, it's very common for dancers to have either a double major or start somewhere and end.
Kesha McKey
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
somewhere else. I also think that's part of part of us as dancers is that we I would say dancers and artists we're very complex. Our minds work and quite complex. can go many different pathways. mean, dancer, choreographer, administrator, educator. I mean, the list goes on. We are
Kesha McKey
right.
Amy Elizabeth
Fully complex and incredible humans, actually. I might be a little biased, but yes, I do feel that way. Well, to get started, so we mentioned that you are currently the Director of Art at the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts, but you actually started there as a student in the dance program, came back as a faculty member, advanced to the
Kesha McKey
You know. Absolutely.
Amy Elizabeth
department chair of dance, and now moving up to the director of the arts. So what has that relationship been like for you?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, know, NOCCA has a really special place in my heart. Attending NOCCA really gave me a lot of the, you know, the, not just the technique and the, you know, the dance skills or whatever, but that grounding in hard work and work ethic and professionalism, you know, all of those skills that
Amy Elizabeth
Mmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, transcend any kind of art discipline, transcend whatever career, right? It just literally, it's what you need to be able to, you know, to thrive in a successful career. So I really, it really had a special place in my heart. And so I, you know, of course, went to pre-med and then doing all these other things, dancing here, dancing there. And after Hurricane Katrina,
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, things were really disrupted. It was a transformative time. And so the position opened because a lot of the faculty either had not returned, were not able to return, and even a lot of the students. So it was a really vulnerable place for the institution. And I'm really honored to be a part of that because
you know, I kind of got in there and was a part of the rebuilding of that program. And so it's really, it was really special for me to be able to come back and give, you know, to a place that had given me so much. And to also think about, you know, after the storm, it was so stressful, like so traumatic on, you know, artists.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
on teachers and on students. And so to really provide a space that had consistency, a space that really supported their training and really fed their passion for dance, for their art, it was a no-brainer for me to be a part of that. And so...
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, starting as a faculty member and then being consistent and doing great work and, you know, really feeling like I was a part of that family in a different way now, you know, was a part of it as a student, but really a part of like, you know, the makeup, you know, like how this place is actually working for students was really special. And so being a part of that.
you know, to then going into the chair position and just, you know, it was just happening. I'm in there moving and shaking, you know, and things are happening. Kids are being successful and getting into schools and all these things, you know, and I guess people see you doing good work and, you know, seeing your heart in it. And so I think that's just doors just started opening and people were like, Kesha, well, you will be great for this. You will be great for that, you know.
And so now I'm in this director of arts position. Whoa, an administrator. Who would have thought?
Amy Elizabeth
Well, I do have to ask, because you do have these different roles that you play, And what, if you can identify maybe one thing that you would say is different between being in the studio with the students versus being an administrator, because like you said, you're still empowering the program, you're still empowering the students. Do you have just as much time in
Kesha McKey
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
one-on-one time with these students as you did before?
Kesha McKey
Unfortunately, I don't. My time is limited with students. That is a drawback to being in this position. But so here's the difference. So when I'm with students and I'm in the dance studio, I'm thinking about dance. I'm thinking about these specific students right in front of me.
And there's this conversation, this symbiotic relationship, like we're literally feeding off of each other. And I'm giving of myself, they're giving back to me in that particular moment. But when I'm at the table, that administrative table, it is more about the school as a whole. So it's not just a group of students in front of me, but literally students, faculty, staff, everybody on campus is impacted.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
by the conversations, by the decisions that are being made at that table. And so it's like a perspective shift.
Amy Elizabeth
Right, it sounds like a larger impact overall.
Kesha McKey
Absolutely, Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah, taking what you're learning with the students and being able to address that on a larger scale. That's really incredible.
Kesha McKey
Totally. It really is. It really is. And you know, initially when they asked me to be, to step into this role, I was like, what? I'm an artist. Like, who? I can't do this. Like, what is this? I don't sit at tables and be in meetings. But then, you know, really thinking about it, I was like, wow, I could really have impact, like a real voice.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
in the decision making for not just now, but for years to come. Thinking about the 10 year, 20, 30, 50 year trajectory. Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah. Is there something that our quality translation is what I'm thinking about how who you are as an artist translates into an administrator? Is there an attribute or a skill or something that you've learned as a dancer from your training or from your teaching experience that translates into being an administrator?
Kesha McKey
Hmm, that is a good question.
Kesha McKey
I think when I'm a little bit of a, I consider myself a slow processor. So when I'm taking information in, but it really is me taking information in not just mentally, but physically. Like there's a physical thing that takes place and my response is coming from the feeling like the, you know, it's this internal.
Kesha McKey
kind of space that it's that's communicating. And I feel the same in dance, you know, when I'm taking things in, or even when I'm choreographing, like, it's not just, it's not coming just from my head, it's literally coming from inside of me. So I would say that that's a parallel. Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes, that's that the word that comes to my mind is whole person is coming coming as your whole person coming as your whole self coming like physically mentally embodying what this is and being able to move it forward. And I think that's I don't know maybe that's what the the upper administration see in you is that ability to come as a whole person and being able to to empathize really
Kesha McKey
Mmm, yes.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
with students, with other faculty, with the school, with their identity. That's really incredible. Now, you mentioned a moment ago what kind of brought you back to NOCCA and...
Amy Elizabeth
understanding that environment and where you are geographically. So it's been reported that tropical cyclones make landfall along the coast of Louisiana every two to three years and hurricanes make landfall every 2.8 years. And in 2020 alone, in the middle of a global pandemic, five
No less than five were reported in that area. And I am just, blown away by this idea. And so our listeners know that we are located here in Southeast Texas and we too experienced hurricanes, tropical storms, but to that scale, and you're our neighbor, you're right there. And so to be so close, but to have such a different experience, it's not a situation or an event that happens, it's a way of life.
And that was just really incredible with reading that and trying to understand that for myself. so I guess my question for you is how does this way of life impose on the education process and the learning environment for your students?
Kesha McKey
Let me start there.
You know, hurricane season is just like you said, it's a reality, it is a way of life. We as a city, as a community, as schools, like we prepare for hurricane season. There are literally vacation days embedded in our schedule for hurricane season in the event that a storm hits because we know
Kesha McKey
that usually it might be like a day or two just if it didn't quite hit us or we got impacted by power outage or anything like that. But if it hits us, we're talking at least a week, at least a week out of school. it's almost like trying to front load as much. But hurricane season is in the midst of at the start of school. It's literally there when we start. So it's like getting that quick.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm
Amy Elizabeth
Yes.
Kesha McKey
jump in, let's get as much done as we can just in case the storm is coming, and then preparing some asynchronous assignments for students to be able to take home. And that's also tricky as well because not every student has the same home situation and are even able to do things at home in the way another student may be able to.
Amy Elizabeth
Right.
Kesha McKey
So, you know, trying to find ways, equitable ways for students to be able to remain engaged and not get, you know, too far behind. But literally, it's just when you get back, it's the catch up. It's the catch up. Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
And I guess my next question is for the student themselves and what is their response to this? mean, adults handle these situations quite differently than young people do. I mean, if I was in high school and you're telling me I get to stay home for a week, woohoo, I'm excited, I'm staying home.
But now I'm staying home for a whole week with my siblings and I may or may not have power and I may or may not be able to leave. And I don't know when I'm gonna get to go back. What are some of the things that you see happen in students around these situations?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, you know, initially it's like, we're out of school. And then, you know, it's the reality hits that some people's homes may flood, you know, some might lose their roofs. And, you know, we've had tornadoes hit as a part of these hurricanes coming now. And, you know, it's so scary. Like you see students get nervous, you know, you see students
you know, asking questions, you know, to try to find just a little bit of, you know, maybe solace, a little bit of relief or, you know, hope, just some hope that, you know, maybe it'll just pass us this time. Now, you know, these kids that we're teaching right now were not here when Hurricane Katrina hit. So they don't necessarily have the PTSD that us grown folks.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm.
Kesha McKey
have from our Hurricane Katrina. But they have experienced some storms and some pretty bad things that have happened as a result of this inclement weather. So they know and they understand. And again, some are much more impacted than others. Some have the means to, as soon as we get out, some parents are picking them up even before they're let out to evacuate. So they have a safe place to go. They're not really thinking about.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, we're gonna be in harm's way. But some families don't have the means. So, you know, those are the families that we kind of have to check on. We're reaching out, you know, we're trying to make sure that families are okay. If folks need anything, you know, we're really trying to, you know, provide those resources, especially for the families that we know have a higher need.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah, and you mentioned that sometimes you could be out for up to a week, but what is that, that bounce back look like for the students and the faculty really?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, you it's always like, you gotta come in with, it's a reset. We come in, we may talk about what our experience was. We don't necessarily sit in it as well in anything, but we do want student voice, for them to be able to just come in and talk about what they experienced and release some of it. And then,
Amy Elizabeth
Mmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, allow them to, you know, if it was some, you know, pain or frustration or, you know, some traumatic experience that they had to just allow that to, you know, float off of them as we move through the space. And so having dance, you know, being a movement art practice is really beneficial, you know, in that sense. I mean, of course, arts in general, but specifically movement in my mind, like I'm thinking because it's literally,
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, you're physically able to move things through a space, like move trauma out of your body, you know, with physical movement. yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes.
Amy Elizabeth
I mean, I know for an adult, yes. I just, for me, I'm still trying to, I'm trying to remember when I was a young person and I was, you know, that age and kind of some of the experiences that I had and what I was thinking about and what I was trying to do to process all of it. And it really was, I just needed to get back. I just needed to get back. Like if I can get out of this place and get back to that place.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
then I'll be okay and then I'll be able to move forward and then I'll be able to start the process of letting it come out, letting it flow through until, well, until the next time. Unfortunately.
Kesha McKey
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, you just gotta give a good class where you just like, they're just going the whole time and they're just, and they're about to end up, they're just like, put everything out. Yes.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah, yes, work it out. also too, being the director, founder and director of KM Dance Project, choreographer creating your art in this, at the same time, in the same capacity. So can you speak a little bit to these impacts on the company and the creative process?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, you know, it's literally like you have to adjust planning, like you have to consider that as you plan. Hurricane season, do we wanna do some in August? Maybe not, let's wait till October.
Amy Elizabeth
We're just gonna block out, it's like blackout dates from here to here. Don't even bother.
Kesha McKey
Yes, yes, yes. You know, but we do, we care for each other as well. You know, we're checking in on folks and sis, are you okay? Yep. How you guys made out? Do y'all need anything? You know, we try to make sure that, you know, that folks are okay. Cause you know, we have babies, families and things and you know, so that's really important for us. Yeah. It's, it's, we care for each other first.
And then, you know, if we're able to get into some process, because sometimes, you know, some, some, you know, big event may have happened. And we may have had rehearsal planned and everybody's okay. We come to rehearsal and we just spend that rehearsal time just literally processing, you know, talking about what happened, you know, caring for each other and just, you know, bringing us back into a space of, you know, this circle, this strong sister circle, like we got this.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah, it's creating that safe space. Creating that safe space for not only artists, but for people. I mean, organizing a company myself, it does become an extended family, right? You spend so much time together. You get to know each other on such a different level. mean, art is vulnerability. And so coming into the studio and...
Kesha McKey
Yes.
Kesha McKey
Yes.
Amy Elizabeth
I think being able to be at such a vulnerable level with this particular group of people that when something like this happens, I think it affects us on a different level because vulnerability to me also helps to generate empathy. And then you bring that empathy into the space and creating that safe space for everybody to come together and be able to process, I think is really important.
Kesha McKey
yes.
Amy Elizabeth
It's really beautiful because it sounds as if you're doing the same thing for the students at the school and then with the company is this creating a safe space, creating openness, creating allowance and allowance for them to be humans first, which is so beautiful. On behalf of all of them, thank you. Thank you for being able to do this for your community because I think sometimes that's the
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
Yes.
Amy Elizabeth
the basis of it is remembering that we're all humans first no matter what. And I think that that too is when I've experienced some of these things here in Texas, that is the number one thing I realized is that in these moments that we have no control over, we'll call them natural disasters if you will, and
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
Absolutely.
Amy Elizabeth
strangers become neighbors.
Kesha McKey
Mmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Lines, divides, barriers, they start to dissolve for a little while. And there's something really beautiful about that. Do we have to wait for a natural disaster to happen?
Kesha McKey
Hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
That's my question and I don't have the answer to it, but there's something about that sense of community that is really beautiful. We all benefit from it. And then how can we explore that more in our daily lives and daily experiences?
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
Yeah, absolutely. only other time I've seen that happen is when we have a Saints game.
Amy Elizabeth
Okay, all right. Yes. Yes. There are events that unite. That is true.
Amy Elizabeth
So let's talk a little bit more about your creative endeavors. So like we mentioned, you are the founder director of KM Dance Project with a vision to challenge societal standards and a collaborating artist with dance grounds focusing on dance for social change. So I'm interested in understanding your vision as a creative and what draws you to what I'm calling mission-driven work.
Kesha McKey
Mm, yeah. You know, one of my mentors is Carol Beebell. She is the former executive director of Ashe Cultural Arts Center. She was really one the founders of that center. And so I worked under her in a lot of my formative years as far as developing my administrative skills. I started with their
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
they had this production called the origins of life on earth. And then I started their youth program. It was a youth cultural arts program called the Kaumba Institute. And so she was, you know, she really mentored me through that process. was, honestly, she was like, Kesha, I think I want you to start this youth program for me. This is what I want. And I know you can do it. So here we go. So this is what I did. And I would meet with her every week. And so
This is where I started this other, it was a precursor to KM Dance Project, was called Crescent City Dance Troupe, no, sorry, Crescent City Choreographers. Crescent City Choreographers. And it was myself and two other dancers that decided to start this company. And our goal was to just have opportunities to create work, to choreograph.
Amy Elizabeth
Okay.
Kesha McKey
And as I was thinking about this work and starting to develop my first real, know, choreographing piece, Ms. Beebell was sitting, she was like, you know, Kesha, was like, I, you know, I really believe in your work and I really, you know, believe you have the ability to do so much. And she said, you know, but really think about, you know, what it is that you're doing with your art. She said, you know, art.
is not just, know, it can be, you know, just for someone to watch and look at and enjoy and take part in. She said, you know, or it can actually, you know, shift lives and shift perspective, like it can be impactful. And so she said, you know, you actually have the power to do that. She said, tell you, you're a great storyteller. She was like, tell your stories and.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm.
Kesha McKey
you know, really think about what's impactful to you, what means a lot to you. And, you know, feel free to put that on the stage because, you know, if it's the replication of life, then people are gonna be impacted by it. And so that kind of, they really did stick with me. And at the time I was, my cousin was actually killed. And I just was, you know, in a place where I was.
questioning like why, why is there so much violence? Why is, you know, this happening and that happening? So I was working on this piece called Taken, which basically is a historical journey of like the African American male being taken, you know, during slavery, during the war, and then during street violence and gang violence and all these things. And so, so that was like my first kind of, you know, real stab at getting deep and getting
Amy Elizabeth
Hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, getting into social justice and social commentary, like what was the statement that I was making? And yeah, so, you know, getting into research, I feel like, you know, diving into research and text and, you know, impactful, you know, move, impactful art, movies, all these sources, you know, could really work to inform and
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
and send people not just, you know, give the audience an opportunity to not just look at just dance, but like give people an opportunity to experience a journey, like a full sensory experience where that had the power to potentially shift the perspective. So, you know, to me, it's really important to do that kind of work, to speak the...
voices that may have been unheard, to tell the stories that may have been untold, and to speak about what I feel has impacted my life, impacted my community. Yeah, because I feel like that's what's important to me. And that just, yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah, that's incredible. I wanna swing back. You mentioned two things. First, the word research, which I'm very intrigued by right now and how we define research. But then second, you talked about this full experience in your work. So let's start with that one if we can and kind of describe what that means to you. Are you using other medias?
Kesha McKey
Mm. Mm.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
And if so, what forms and how does that really impact the work that you're creating?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, I love other mediums. know, I'm really a theater baby, right? I'm really like this musical theater kind of kid. I came up singing, dancing, you know, putting on my own productions at home. So I'm really a theater kid, right? And then I'm also a storyteller. yeah, I think it's important
Amy Elizabeth
Yes.
Kesha McKey
what is necessary for the storytelling, I think is where I tend to lean into, whether that be through movement, whether that be through words, that's through song, whether that's through sound, whether it's through film, through some type of installation or collage or something of that nature. I think what lends itself
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
and really gives the links to the story is what's important to me. So I love venturing out. I love incorporating other things into dance productions. Yeah, yeah, it's what I do. feel like it's what, it's even how I create. It's how I create. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'll give an example. Like, you know, I could be watching
Amy Elizabeth
Explain that. Explain that. How do you create?
Kesha McKey
a movie that may have nothing to do with, you know, the piece that I'm working on, but something about I'll give an example. So this this piece I choreographed, Boshimani Living Curiosities, the story of Sargi Bartman, the Venus hot and tired. And this movie, what is it called? Samuel Jackson, the it's the movie where he has the woman locked up in the house. All right. And so he ties her up.
Amy Elizabeth
Okay.
Kesha McKey
like hogtied. And he's trying to get like the evil spirits out of her, like he's trying to cleanse her of her sins, basically. But this hogtied moment, that visual for me was so impactful. And in this piece, you know, we were really kind of exploring this idea of exhibition. And
Amy Elizabeth
Okay.
Amy Elizabeth
and
Kesha McKey
being treated as an animal, it's this whole kind of play on sexuality. So all these little elements were coming as a part of that. And so this vision of like this arching back, reaching back, and we literally did like a slide to the floor and was like reaching for our feet. And so that was...
part of the choreography because it came from that particular vision, know, that imagery of that scene. So using stuff like that where things just stick with me, think is a part of the storytelling, right? It's just how it looks, how it feels, because it was something about the way it felt that made it perfect for that moment.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
So yes, the look of it, but also it was the feeling of it and this, it was the tension that was created as a result of that. So there's something about, you know, energy, there's something about the look, the visual, of course the connection to the story. Yeah, yeah, I'm rambling now, sorry.
Amy Elizabeth
No, no, no, because the way that you're describing it, I think helps helps me, but also helps the listener in how something that would seem random or disconnected, how it connects to what it is that you're doing. So that's going to take me to that research question that I had is that would you say this is a form of research for you? And then my question is, was that intentional research?
or is that life experience?
Kesha McKey
Oh, you know, so why are my other mentors, Jowellie Willa Josala, know, former executive director of artistic director of Urban Bush Women. She always says that research is everything that you're doing when you're working on a piece. Like, literally, when you start to think about this idea, everything you see becomes
a relationship to what it is you're creating. whether it's, you know, maybe it's not intentional, sometimes it can be intentional. Like I may, I want to read this book because this book has subject matter that is, you know, linked to these historical moments inside of this particular era that we're working in. So maybe I want to read those books. Maybe I want to, you know, look at specific visual artwork by this artist that was,
tapping into some of the same ideas or concepts that I'm really trying to investigate. But then there's the other things that I'm just walking around and I'm like, whoa, look at the shape of this sculpture. What is like, this reminds me of, this would be really cool. my God, this like such a, and then we, I bring it into the studio. Maybe I'll take a photo of it.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, bring it into the space and let's see what this feels like. Let's see what it looks like. Let's see, you let's play around with it, you know, flip it upside down. I don't know. Let's try to make the shape. So we just play around with it at that point.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah. So, yes, I'm just sitting here nodding along for those who can see, but for those who cannot see, like obviously, as my mama says, don't rattle. But I'm just, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I just want to shout yes as you're talking because I don't think that that was something that was taught to me, but it is something that I do experience and...
Kesha McKey
Mmm.
Amy Elizabeth
and how these things come about or come into play and being at the museum and seeing the title of an artwork that then becomes the title of the work that you're working on and they have looking at them to visual works. It looks as if they're completely disassociated, but the response, the feeling, the idea, the impression, the emotions that I got from this visual work to me were
the exact replication of what I was doing. was the essence of what I was doing. And it was just a random day to go to the museum, to check it out, to experience life. And I think as an educator trying to help students understand kind of what that feels like without telling them you should go to a museum, experience life, you know?
Kesha McKey
Mmm.
Kesha McKey
Right. Right. Right. Right.
Amy Elizabeth
the conversations you're having with your friends, the things that you're studying in your other classes. How can you bring all of these in to influence not only who you are, but also your voice and what you share? And that's just, it's life-changing, it's life-shifting. And then how would you, if you could, because this is one of the questions I'm struggling with is how do I define research? It was presented to me as research has to create new information.
Kesha McKey
Absolutely.
Amy Elizabeth
a lot of times research for me generates new questions, but not actually new information. And so I'm interested in does research have to be conclusive?
Kesha McKey
I don't think so.
You know, I believe, well, I feel like research.
Research is like, you know, it's the space you kind of reach into to then pull into like your present.
Kesha McKey
area of like, transmolding and transformation and shifting. And for me, you know, even like, I'll give you a raw fruit, like we toured the work, we performed it, I don't know how many times, but literally, every single time I was like, okay, y'all, so let's think about this, like, this really came up for me when I was doing this, literally, like it was changing and shifting and, you know, evolving the entire time. So, you know, it's
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
it's never ending for me. It's like not concrete. It's not just like this one thing that's this is the thing. This is the answer. This is what it made. No, I feel like it is is, you know, ever growing ever evolving. Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes, I agree. I think for me in answering that question, I'm starting to...
kind of wrap around is this idea of discovery. And that research is about discovery, it's about exploration, it's not about a conclusion. But I also feel that I think that same way about my creative process in that it's about the process, not the product. It's about the journey to get there. Yes, we have a mission, we have a vision, we have a statement, we have a theme, we have a context, those sorts of things.
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
and all of our decisions are impacting that, empowering it, and trying to make it as clear as possible. But there's always new information coming in to continue to make that clearer as you go along. So you mentioned Raw Fruit, and Raw Fruit received the National Performance Network Creation and Development Fund Awards and the New England Foundation for the Arts National Dance Project
production grant. How long first my first question is how how long have you been in the concept of raw fruit from development? Because as you say, like it's still continuing each time you show it to how long has that span been for you?
Kesha McKey
Wow, literally 10 years now, feel like. Yeah, seriously. So 2016, I received the fellowship through Dancing While Black. And this was this exchange between New Orleans and New York artists. And so I was flying to New York every month. We were in these sessions and feeding off of each other. And then we created a work at
Amy Elizabeth
Wow!
Kesha McKey
end of the sessions, you know, as like this combination of the fellowship. And so as a part of that combination, I came up with this solo. This was a solo that was rooted in my relationship with my grandmother, my maternal grandmother, and my relationship with my mother. And then I was really trying to navigate.
this kind of communication space, right? What are the things that my grandmother translated to me from her grandmothers and grandmothers and things? What was the information that was translated to my mother from my grandmother? What was translated to me from my mother that, you know, and of course you think about the things that actually got translated and then the things that actually got a little blurred and
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, reformed as it was translated. And then on the other side of that is how I received information, my interpretation of what was told or what was given to me, my mother's interpretation of what was given to her. So I was just really kind of navigating those things and honestly trying to work on my relationship with my mother. So that was really like the root, the seed of Raw Fruit, which
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
Yeah, it kind of, I felt like this was something that could grow. it wasn't, this experience is not, you know, it's more than just about me, right? Like so many other people have experiences like this. And so my first iteration of deepening and expanding the work,
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
was actually bringing in male and female dancers. And so we did, you know, this whole, it was a residency that I got at the CAC. And so was like, okay, let's just work on this and workshop and do some things. And so, you know, we did some research and came up with some other topics and, you know, folks were bringing their own stories and their own experiences into the work. And that was really beautiful. So from that particular iteration, I was like, look,
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
I like, I want to develop this further. So I'm going to submit this for an NDP grant, which literally nobody in the state of Louisiana had ever received a national dance project award. this was like, yes, this was like, okay, Kesha, you know what? All they can do is tell you no. All they can do is tell you no, so.
Amy Elizabeth
That's incredible.
Amy Elizabeth
That's right.
Kesha McKey
you know, applied for that and got the award, which was incredible. Incredible. Like I had never, I had never been able to, you know, have funding to support a work in that way, the development, let me say the development of a work in that way. And to have that kind of funding and support was
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
critical to the development of that work. I was able to bring in a musician to work with us for the entirety of the creative process with along with all the dancers. So we're all in the creative process and redeveloping and pulling things apart and digging in a little bit deeper, pulling back layers, digging in a little bit more deeper. And so the work that came out of it, my gosh, yeah.
it was, it's still evolving, like it is still like a living piece. It is a living piece. Because every single time we do it, it's so crazy. It was literally like therapy for all of us who are part of the process. Literally therapy, we will all go home and just be like, my god, like, my life has changed as a part of this work. So and you know, and gratefully so.
Amy Elizabeth
Yeah.
Kesha McKey
audience members have come up and just saw themselves inside the work and have left with just a whole new perspective and experience. And yeah, so it's been a really, really special work.
Amy Elizabeth
Can you talk a little bit more about that, the idea of the audience's perspective? And I like to call it a universal idea or a universal perspective. When you take something that's really specific to you, like this was your story with your mother, your grandmother and your ideology and how you process that to be able to open it up to the cast for them to have understanding, but then to be able to bring in an entire
audience in, that's a universal understanding. And so the ability for your story to be able to do that.
Amy Elizabeth
from the audience's perspective, from your perspective, what is that? How do you see that?
Kesha McKey
Yeah.
You know.
Kesha McKey
It's so weird. think when you don't, never know what the audience is going to experience, right? You never know what their perspective is going to be, what they take away from the work, you know, what they see in the work. So I don't know that I ever had a focus or anything on what the audience was going to take away from it. Like I knew what energies
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
what I wanted to say. I knew what the journey was supposed to be. And I think focusing on an honest and authentic experience, which is, think, the theatrical part of my body. Just thinking about how do I truth, how do they believe that I'm actually going through this right?
Amy Elizabeth
Mm-hmm.
Kesha McKey
you know, yeah, and energetically kind of tapping into this, you know, really deep place inside. And I think that when that happens, I think that is what is a part of, you know, what can trigger memories or what can kind of, you know, trigger similarities and experiences. And maybe it's not even a same experience, but something is triggered for them that
connects them to a particular moment in the work. So yeah, you know, and you know, through talk backs, I think the deepening is also when we do talk backs after the work, and people can ask questions and like, you know, maybe they're thinking about this one moment, they're like, I don't know what's happening, but it just feels like something that I want to know more about what's happening here. And when they ask the question, it's like, right, yes, I really felt this thing or
you know, experience this thing. So, yeah.
Amy Elizabeth
This kind of takes me back to what we talked about earlier in this idea of being able to work with the dancer and what that role does for you. And then being an administrator and how that kind of opens up space for a larger impact. And I feel as if the same journey happens with the experience that you just talked about is that it is the small something that is empowering the self that then empowers a small group.
but by sharing it with the audience, it widens that impact for them to experience it. And then listening to you describe the audience's response takes me back to your research yourself. What you were talking about is like, this doesn't actually relate at all, but yet it's bringing up this feeling, this thought, this emotion. And it's just, for me, that is one of the beautiful things about dance is
the level of vulnerability that is accessible to an audience, the level of empathy, the connection, it may not be exact, but human to human, we're here with each other right now in this space. And I think that goes, circles back. I get into that idea of when we are taken out of our normal context.
Kesha McKey
(laughter)
Amy Elizabeth
in a traumatic experience and we remember that we are human first and then we're again, we're on this same level, the same playing field with one another. The connection I think is really the most beautiful aspect of what I'm able to do as an artist and just those layers that you continue to talk about in each aspect, whether it be as an educator, an administrator, a choreographer.
It's really beautiful. Again, I just want to say thank you for that.
Kesha McKey
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I had not even thought about that. Like making that connection is really profound. I just, wow. But I'm just so glad that you're making the connection because, you know, now I can be even more intentional about like, you know, the way I'm doing things, like the way I'm working. Yeah, this is super huge for me.
Amy Elizabeth
You
Amy Elizabeth
So is Raw Fruit going to be shown again anytime soon?
Kesha McKey
Yeah, that is a great question. Should someone call me and say we have funding to bring you out to perform Raw Fruit? Absolutely.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes, all of our all of our dance producers and presarios. Yes, this podcast is for you.
Kesha McKey
we're here. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. You know, unfortunately, we don't have any additional like tour subsidy funding to support that. But, you know, we would totally be open to, you know, performing it again. But you know, but now we're we are kind of, you know, focusing on developing a new work. Yeah, so you know, raw raw food is still sitting there. She's still sitting there, you know.
Amy Elizabeth
Okay.
Amy Elizabeth
She's still there. I think it's probably one of those works that's not going to leave. Because it is, does, the way you described it, it felt personal. And the idea that you still want to continue to develop it if the opportunity arises. It's just one of those, just really sticks with you. That's really beautiful.
Kesha McKey
Yeah, totally.
Amy Elizabeth
Well, Kesha, I could spend all night talking with you. This has been absolutely wonderful, but we have come to the rapid round to close out our conversation. So our rapid round includes two sentences. So if you could complete the following sentences, the first one is resilience is.
Kesha McKey
fighting for and never allowing yourself to give up.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes.
And dance has taught me.
Kesha McKey
Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. Okay, dance has taught me to trust my inside voice, to allow myself to express honestly and from an authentic space.
Amy Elizabeth
Yes, that is beautiful. Thank you so much. I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to talk with me on Dance Unscripted and we wish you the very best in your new project.
Kesha McKey
Yay!
Kesha McKey
Yes!
Kesha McKey
Awesome, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. I had so much fun. Yay.
Amy Elizabeth
Thank you for joining us for Dance Unscripted presented by Aimed Dance. Knowing you could have chosen any other platform, you chose us and you chose dance. And for that, we thank you. Be sure to click the subscribe button and share this episode with a dance loving friend. Leave us a review on Spotify and your name will be entered into a drawing for Dance Unscripted merch. The winners will be announced at the end of each episode. Season one is brought to you by a grant from the Lamar University Center for Resiliency.